A stupid thread started by a terrible player.

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antielitist
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A stupid thread started by a terrible player.

Postby antielitist » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:24 am

Every guild applicant is turned away due to the officer's impossible demands or criteria to be met. All you do is criticize an applicant over meaningless bullshit. A still image of an applicant's hud for example is needlessly scrutinized to the point of, "What is the point"? I'm already lost in this labryinth of detail.
How can you accept or deny an applicant based on how they answer questions or post links to their character's dps or hps output? Isn't it better to see them in actual game play footage? Show them how to make or edit a video of their character playing.Do any of the officer's know how to do this? Probably not-and that is the problem. Otherwise it's a complete waste of time for everyone involved. Most applications i've read seem pretty good to me.
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby Melbu » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:30 am

antielitist wrote:Every guild applicant is turned away due to the officer's impossible demands or criteria to be met. All you do is criticize an applicant over meaningless bullshit. A still image of an applicant's hud for example is needlessly scrutinized to the point of, "What is the point"? I'm already lost in this labryinth of detail.
How can you accept or deny an applicant based on how they answer questions or post links to their character's dps or hps output? Isn't it better to see them in actual game play footage? Show them how to make or edit a video of their character playing.Do any of the officer's know how to do this? Probably not-and that is the problem. Otherwise it's a complete waste of time for everyone involved. Most applications i've read seem pretty good to me.


someone got denied and is unhappy about it
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby antielitist » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:32 am

someone got denied and is unhappy about it


NO.... TRY AGAIN
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby Denic » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:45 am

antielitist wrote:Every guild applicant is turned away due to the officer's impossible demands or criteria to be met. All you do is criticize an applicant over meaningless bullshit. A still image of an applicant's hud for example is needlessly scrutinized to the point of, "What is the point"? I'm already lost in this labryinth of detail.
How can you accept or deny an applicant based on how they answer questions or post links to their character's dps or hps output? Isn't it better to see them in actual game play footage? Show them how to make or edit a video of their character playing.Do any of the officer's know how to do this? Probably not-and that is the problem. Otherwise it's a complete waste of time for everyone involved. Most applications i've read seem pretty good to me.


I'd give you a serious reply, but you failed to follow our complaint format, so I'm just going to have to outright deny you an explanation.
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby antielitist » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:22 pm

I'd give you a serious reply, but you failed to follow our complaint format, so I'm just going to have to outright deny you an explanation


Failed to follow a mythical complaint format,lol. You mean there is a certain procedure involved? Where can i find this wonderful bit of info?
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby Methios » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:47 pm

I think you missed the part where he was making fun of you.
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby martyr » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:00 pm

antielitist wrote:Every guild applicant is turned away due to the officer's impossible demands or criteria to be met. All you do is criticize an applicant over meaningless bullshit. A still image of an applicant's hud for example is needlessly scrutinized to the point of, "What is the point"? I'm already lost in this labryinth of detail.
How can you accept or deny an applicant based on how they answer questions or post links to their character's dps or hps output? Isn't it better to see them in actual game play footage? Show them how to make or edit a video of their character playing.Do any of the officer's know how to do this? Probably not-and that is the problem. Otherwise it's a complete waste of time for everyone involved. Most applications i've read seem pretty good to me.


Link your armory so we can see how amazing you are.

Seriously, when I app'd here the application process was MUCH more stringent. I also didn't have the experience they looked for. I was lucky enough to get a trial.

This is one of the more basic and less demanding application processes of a decent guild. I've seen much more brutal applications.

I'm guessing you thought about apping, but then changed your mind when you saw we actually require people to have a brain to apply.

Oh another fun thing? Noone cares what your UI looks like if it works for you. If you can explain/defend if it looks cluttered/crappy and it doesn't cause SA problems noone would care.

How can you accept or deny an applicant based on how they answer questions or post links to their character's dps or hps output? Isn't it better to see them in actual game play footage? Show them how to make or edit a video of their character playing.Do any of the officer's know how to do this? Probably not-and that is the problem.


You realize that logs show a quantifiable log of their characters in game performance? So basically, you would require not only an application in the first place, but a video as well? Do you know how many people's computers are able to handle running WoW and running Fraps while still maintaining an acceptable FPS?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBe-UMzs8Ts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obqStjd_LS8

Those are some of my vids, you know, top 20 US kills, top 10 mage DPS, etc etc. Have fun.

Edit:

Also, part of the reason for a lengthy application is to deter people who would be completely wasting our time and their time when applying. At the very least, consider the application a favor. It saves people money from transfering over here for a "chance" when they were awful in the first place.

Oh, and if you bothered to click the "videos" tab at the top, you'd see kill vids. Posted by a... you guessed it! Officer.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3979
Last edited by martyr on Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby antielitist » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:03 pm

I think you missed the part where he was making fun of you.

I am actually playing along based upon Denic's reply, which he is appearing to be clever and sophisticated. Which is the part that YOU missed dumbass.
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby antielitist » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:17 pm

Seriously, when I app'd here the application process was MUCH more stringent. I also didn't have the experience they looked for. I was lucky enough to get a trial.

I don't believe you. Not one applicant has ever been accepted over the last 2 years.Anyways you contradict yourself with the above pasted text.If you had no experience,Spike Flail would NOT have accepted you. So you are full of shit. I can link the top european and american raid guilds with their application forms and NONE are as laborious and stupid as Spike Flail's.Also there was an applicant who applied last year who was actually a Spike Flail guild member who pretended to not be in the guild. You wanna talk shit pal, no problem! It's also very easy to make a video of your character playing,which doesn't require extreme hardware. PLease explain how all of you made it into the raid,and all the other applicant's can't get in..I read over what was called the best filled out application by the prospective paladin tank,only to be denied.Based on new rules that no one knew about! Give me a break.
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby Denic » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:38 pm

antielitist wrote:I don't believe you. Not one applicant has ever been accepted over the last 2 years.


False.

Anyways you contradict yourself with the above pasted text.If you had no experience,Spike Flail would NOT have accepted you. So you are full of shit. I can link the top european and american raid guilds with their application forms and NONE are as laborious and stupid as Spike Flail's.


Then apply to them. Bonus points if you tell them how much you like their application form compared to ours.

Also there was an applicant who applied last year who was actually a Spike Flail guild member who pretended to not be in the guild. You wanna talk shit pal, no problem!


Not sure what that's supposed to prove.

It's also very easy to make a video of your character playing,which doesn't require extreme hardware. PLease explain how all of you made it into the raid,and all the other applicant's can't get in..I read over what was called the best filled out application by the prospective paladin tank,only to be denied.Based on new rules that no one knew about! Give me a break.


I filled out the application form, answered TC questions and conducted a vent interview. I then went through a month long trial period. Pretty much like what almost everyone else has done, save a few (although now I'm thinking we should demand Palin write an application).

As to the Paladin app, we have a Prot Paladin. He's never anything other than Prot in raids. It was a tough deny, but after discussion we didn't want to double up on Prot Paladins. Writing a good application and being a good player doesn't automatically get you a trial in spite of our current roster/needs.
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby martyr » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:39 pm

I don't believe you. Not one applicant has ever been accepted over the last 2 years.Anyways you contradict yourself with the above pasted text.If you had no experience,Spike Flail would NOT have accepted you. So you are full of shit.


Well my application is dated September 14th, 2009. So that's within 2 years. So that's one shot down.

I also didn't have the experience they looked for.


Also I didn't say I had no experience, I said I didn't have the experience they looked for. I was 4/9 HMs in Ulduar, they had already done 0 light Yogg-Saron. They wanted people that had more experience. I got a trial because they only had one mage and I took my time and crafted a proper application.

I can link the top european and american raid guilds with their application forms and NONE are as laborious and stupid as Spike Flail's.Also there was an applicant who applied last year who was actually a Spike Flail guild member who pretended to not be in the guild.


Link them. Both please.

You wanna talk shit pal, no problem! It's also very easy to make a video of your character playing,which doesn't require extreme hardware.


Even if it was "so easy" it would still take about the same amount of time that actually typing out an application in the first place would. :)

PLease explain how all of you made it into the raid,and all the other applicant's can't get in..I read over what was called the best filled out application by the prospective paladin tank,only to be denied.Based on new rules that no one knew about! Give me a break.


I made it in because they only had one mage at the time in a 25 man. The application by the paladin tank was amazing. If we didn't already have 2 paladins (prot and holy) in a 10 man guild he would have been given a trial no problem.

If you click on this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4679

It will show you exactly what classes we are looking for. Does it say anywhere on there that we are looking for a Prot Paladin? He took a chance and had a great application. Unfortunately we aren't looking for another prot paladin and it's not exactly fair to trial him and sit people that have been in the guild for 3+ years.

If you are going to try to troll us on our own forums, atleast bring some links with proof and bring a little less angst. It's obvious you have a stick up your ass about something. Whether you were denied and just don't want to admit it or the application process kept you away in the first place. Why else would you be here crying about how hard it is?
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby antielitist » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:54 pm

Whether you were denied and just don't want to admit it or the application process kept you away in the first place.

I am saying basically that Spike Flail is an elitist guild that has a moronic application process that does NOT WORK.First off Martr or whatever the fuck you call yourself what argument have you actually made? All applicants since 2009 have not been accepted for the stupidist reasons. I know because somebody posted a scathing rebuke of your guild on Wowinsider and so i came here sometime back. I noticed nobody got accepted. Applicants were turned away for having a gathering profession or a player showing an image of his ui(he was a clicker,omfg!) If you are looking for intelligent persons then demand a video.That will prove right off the bat what you can see.Make it clear what you want IN THE VIDEO. So there is no misunderstanding........


ps- I never applied to spike flail and i will not link the top guild's like Paragon or Vodka. Go there yourself you lazy ass.
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby Meaning » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:57 pm

I applied august 10th 2009 and was accepted :O
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby antielitist » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:01 pm

I applied august 10th 2009 and was accepted :O

I'm happy for you.Wonderful news.Thank you for sharing this with us.
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby martyr » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:07 pm

antielitist wrote:Whether you were denied and just don't want to admit it or the application process kept you away in the first place.

I am saying basically that Spike Flail is an elitist guild that has a moronic application process that does NOT WORK.First off Martr or whatever the fuck you call yourself what argument have you actually made? All applicants since 2009 have not been accepted for the stupidist reasons. I know because somebody posted a scathing rebuke of your guild on Wowinsider and so i came here sometime back. I noticed nobody got accepted. Applicants were turned away for having a gathering profession or a player showing an image of his ui(he was a clicker,omfg!) If you are looking for intelligent persons then demand a video.That will prove right off the bat what you can see.Make it clear what you want IN THE VIDEO. So there is no misunderstanding........


ps- I never applied to spike flail and i will not link the top guild's like Paragon or Vodka. Go there yourself you lazy ass.


The seething angst and the fact that you can't figure out how to use the quote button is probably the funniest part of this thread.

Please apply to Paragon and Vodka and tell me how it works out for you.

I'm still not seeing where the misunderstanding is. Thinking about it again, the most hilarious part of this entire thing is how you avoid 90% of someone's post and attack one line of it.

Seriously, please keep us laughing. These kinds of threads make my day.
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby Denic » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:15 pm

antielitist wrote:I am saying basically that Spike Flail is an elitist guild that has a moronic application process that does NOT WORK.


Oh no, an anonymous World of Warcraft player is trying to tell us our application process doesn't work. Can we possibly hire you to rewrite our application and shake up our process so it does work?

All applicants since 2009 have not been accepted for the stupidist reasons.


We have a restricted archive where accepted/rejected applications generally get moved. People have been lazy with it as of late, but in it you'll find plenty of applications accepted in 2010 as well. Saying no applications have been accepted in 2011 would be accurate. Not all that surprising since we only opened recruitment after we killed Sinestra two months ago.

I know because somebody posted a scathing rebuke of your guild on Wowinsider and so i came here sometime back.


Oh my, what ever shall we do?

Applicants were turned away for having a gathering profession or a player showing an image of his ui(he was a clicker,omfg!) If you are looking for intelligent persons then demand a video.That will prove right off the bat what you can see.Make it clear what you want IN THE VIDEO. So there is no misunderstanding........


Are you trying to imply that applicants with gathering professions are widely/readily accepted into the top US guilds? Demanding a video has nothing to do with anything. Intelligence, or a lack thereof, can easily be conveyed in writing style and post content.
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby Methios » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:24 pm

I apped and was accepted to vodka when we went of break at the end of WotLK. Our app process isn't close to that of those guilds.
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby Palin » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:36 pm

Why the hell can you not use the quote button? You fail our internet savvy tech criteria. :roll:

antielitist wrote: I am saying basically that Spike Flail is an elitist guild that has a moronic application process that does NOT WORK.


Um, apparently it does work for us since we've been relatively successful. We're a 10m guild with a 14 person roster atm. Why the fuck should we not be picky when picking someone up and Trialing them means we sit one of our vetted raid members who's already sits out 1/3 of the time? We're not falling apart, we're not desperate for people. So why pick up people's skill is less than ours?

And yes, we are elitist. So is every serious progression guild. You don't get to cutting edge progression by taking in everyone and anyone.

First off Martr or whatever the fuck you call yourself what argument have you actually made? All applicants since 2009 have not been accepted for the stupidist reasons.


You're an idiot because people have proved you wrong multiple times. Btw, our last accepted Trial? May 2010, the end of ICC. A month later we took a break from the game until Cata, went 10m, and had little reason to recruit until a month ago. Keep acting like you know what you're talking about though, based on public forum information. Because you konw, there's no way we've ever moved things to private forums...

Also there was an applicant who applied last year who was actually a Spike Flail guild member who pretended to not be in the guild. You wanna talk shit pal, no problem!


Oh you mean the one that was a joke? Great example.

It's also very easy to make a video of your character playing,which doesn't require extreme hardware.


I don't get you. Making a video takes as long and as much work as someone filling out a proper application. Yes while a video would answer some things, it doesn't answer everything we look for in an applicant.

I know because somebody posted a scathing rebuke of your guild on Wowinsider and so i came here sometime back. I noticed nobody got accepted. Applicants were turned away for having a gathering profession or a player showing an image of his ui(he was a clicker,omfg!) If you are looking for intelligent persons then demand a video.That will prove right off the bat what you can see.Make it clear what you want IN THE VIDEO. So there is no misunderstanding........


Wait wait wait wait wait wait. What's YOUR Progression if you really thinking gathering professions and being a clicker are worthy of a top tier progression guild? And why do you think someone who is dumb enough to apply to a top end raiding guild without fully maximizing their character will know how to record a video? Most of these people who apply to us with gathering professions or only Normal mode experience need help applying because they don't know how to read the stickies to find out how to apply.

So let's say we did do things your way. We were more lenient with recruitment, let anyone in to test themselves in our raids, regardless if their application was subpar or not. We ask these people to server change and possibly faction change, costing them anywhere from $25-55 dollars just to Trial with us. They come into our raids and we try to find a place for them during progression to see how they perform. On farm bosses we sit one of our established players who probably still needs drops to test these new Trials, who end up sucking balls as we predicted they would. We give them a shot for the full 2-3 weeks or w/e, losing valuable raid progression time on needless wipes caused by trying to test out these Trials we accepted so readily. Finally in the end we see they're not up to our standards and fail them, leaving them stranded on a new server/faction with nothing to show for it. They wasted money, we waste gear opportunities, and everyone wasted time.

How exactly do you see this being more fair than being picky at the start? A lot of high end guilds do exactly as you suggested, and handle it in the above manner. Recruit a lot of people, if they suck they boot them at the first moment of failure. That's pretty inhumane IMO. I'd rather ask the applicant to put a little more time into the application process, you know, BEFORE they spend $25-55 dollars, and be harsh there than lenient in the application process and hard on the Trial. For the record, our Trial success rate is over 90%. If someone makes it through this long tedious process you so vehemently are against, there's a very good chance they're the type of person we want and will not fail. Not only that, if someone has put in that much effort to impress us, we're going to be more lenient with them during the Trial on fights they haven't seen, etc.

Most applications i've read seem pretty good to me.


You're clearly not us. If you were part of this guild, we'd care about your opinion. You're not.

It baffles me you think that players who would bog down our progression are people we should be taking so readily and giving chances to, that its OK for a guild trying to push top kills to take in players with no professions, clickers, etc. You may think our questions are silly, but every single question in there was added because we had a failure of a previous Trial we didn't forsee in our app process. We didn't ask for UI screen-shots until we Trialed someone who was using the basic UI and was keyboard turning/clicking. We didn't ask about dual spec theorycraft until one guy who said he could play his offspec turned out to never have even used it. Every question is a culmination of 3+ years of experience doing this. We actually do know what we're doing.

Here's a question for you. Why do you care? Its our standards, if they're too stringent and we fall apart as a guild because of it, then that's on us. It'd be oru own fault. But we've had very good success with our standards since the beginning of WoLK, and have had no reason to look back. Just because you don't feel it's fair that mouth breathers with 12/12 6/7 Normal experience don't make it into our top 10 US 10m guild raids... well that's not even worth qualifying.
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby Melbu » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:36 pm

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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby Palin » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:43 pm

I also like you created a whole new email just to register here and vent to us. I feel special.
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby congo » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:45 pm

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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby Denic » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:48 pm

By the way this is a fun game, but I think I figured out who it is.

Gotta be Depran. Can we get an IP check?

Regardless, this guy is definitely the one who wrote that "scathing rebuke" about our guild on WoW Insider. Lack of spaces post punctuation, shitty paragraph spacing/format, etc.

http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/04/02/ready ... 2#comments

Certainly harboring some hard feelings to come here over a year later.
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby Rill » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:52 pm

The reason why I believe Spike Flail's recruitment is actually above and beyond the standards of top end guilds is that every applicant who gets denied gains insight to why they got denied in the first place. Not only does the applicant get a prompt and polite response back, they are free to pm any officer questions about improving their gameplay. It's that level of respect that is so commonly lacking in higher end guilds because they just don't care about their hundreds of applicants. Clearly this guild does.

Oh,and please learn to use your spacebar.Not all of us like reading posts like this,ya know?
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby martyr » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:24 pm

Denic wrote:By the way this is a fun game, but I think I figured out who it is.

Gotta be Depran. Can we get an IP check?

Regardless, this guy is definitely the one who wrote that "scathing rebuke" about our guild on WoW Insider. Lack of spaces post punctuation, shitty paragraph spacing/format, etc.

http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/04/02/ready ... 2#comments

Certainly harboring some hard feelings to come here over a year later.


Oh man that's awesome. Had no idea I had a fan club. The funniest part about how protective I am of my raid slot near the end of Wrath is that I was begging my friends to apply and going out on a limb for a couple of them. I even took on a guy who wasn't as skilled but I thought I could work with him. I wanted to be able to sit so bad.

If an applicant happens to be a mage then at least 10 additional questions are asked from the guild's own premier mage.This guy is very protective of his raid status so he really does not want another mage competing so every mage aspiring player is therefore shot down and thus denied.


They are not even in the top 10 in the US!How is my typing so far? Is it error free? When that mage(martyr?) of Spike Flail hammers away at a mage applicant by criticizing why he died from a tail swipe from Sindagrosa's tail,he forgets that he himself died numerous times along with the entire raid while in Frostwing Halls.


Hell I had class on Tuesdays and Thursdays and the raid didn't have a mage. I love it.
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Re: Why Guild Raid Recruitment Fails

Postby Melbu » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:28 pm

Denic wrote:By the way this is a fun game, but I think I figured out who it is.

Gotta be Depran. Can we get an IP check?

Regardless, this guy is definitely the one who wrote that "scathing rebuke" about our guild on WoW Insider. Lack of spaces post punctuation, shitty paragraph spacing/format, etc.

http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/04/02/ready ... 2#comments

Certainly harboring some hard feelings to come here over a year later.



Ip addys are different so unless he moved its prob not him

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this one out of St Pete Florida

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