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Nayaru
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Post by Nayaru » Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:23 pm

You know to be honest, you guys act as if I tank because I want to tank, and passing over items that I really want because you guys have me in the position where I HAVE TO TANK, makes me reconsider tanking.
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Post by Palin » Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:27 am

I'm being realistic. Whats gonna be a bigger upgrade, a Rogue whos gonna use the T3 Weapon every raid, or one of our best geared Tanks who also wants to go Fury. You'd be upgrading Thunder no? thats not a Fury Weapon, thats a PVP Weapon. Honestly I'd rather put any full time DPS class over a Warrior, because all our Warriors will be tanking at some point and time, and every one of them is upgrading Deep Thunder for Arena, not to PVE.

You stress progression no matter what, you really shouldn't be this opposed to tanking for the guild. We all know you want to go Fury, we've been focusing on having JC be our MT. If you don't want to MT don't, but we don't bring every Warrior we have atm for their DPS, we bring one for the Melee group if any, and the rest to tank. If you don't want to tank, don't, we'll phase you out. Even if you were a full time DPS Warrior, you've stated you want to raid Fury, you don't have a T2 1h afaik, and even still, half the time you got an invite it'd be to OT. So I'd still rather prioritize a full time DPS, it just makes more sense from a progression standpoint, which you've always pushed is the standpoint we should be taking no?

Don't know why this is such a big deal, we're gonna be trashing them in a month's time.
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Post by Swole » Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:22 pm

There's no way we should ever trash these. They make some great BOEs that we could use to plus up a guild bank imo. I know that's dependent on us finding the recipes, but there are few more valuable reagents that our raiding will expose us to afaik.

Nay, I have to say, that sounded damn close to a threat and if that's how you were intending it, it's bullshit. People just shelled out a lot of gold to help get you and JC get primals for your resistance set and now because you might not be one of the first to get a PVP toy, you wanna take your ball and go home. We had this same discussion revolving around Cleet when he wanted Gorehowl and Usha is being consistent that PVE progression comes first. Your comments disappoint me, but unfortunately, hardly come as a surprise.
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Nayaru
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Post by Nayaru » Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:06 pm

You know what, you act like I didn't spend ANY of my own gold or time farming for any of the resist gear myself, or the money it takes to respec or keep myself up with consumables for a part of my class that I don't even enjoy what so ever. If your gonna give me BULLSHIT like this, im really done, I was willing to pass to anyone that was pve specced and had tier 2 but currently we dont even have one thats not a trial i've always been in the position for progression first, and after I read palin's post I reconsidered, but you came in when you didnt need to say shit.

I'm done. Seriously. You act as if you have any ground to stand on when you were in the same position 3 months ago where you wanted to go your desired tree (feral), when we wanted you resto, you cried your ass home, and stayed FERAL, way to take one for the team. Zeph had to take out 1.5 months, give up his rogue, AND level a resto druid just so you can have your way. What did you ever give up so you could play the way you want? Oh wait, nothing. So fuck what you said you hypocrite bastard and go fuck yourself.

Peace. It was fun while it lasted.
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Post by Palin » Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:57 pm

I've asked you both to work out your problems privately, I hope you both can man up and be mature about this conflict and resolve it. Either way, if Nay leaves us, we're screwed one of our MT tanks on Hydross, and have to completely regear a resist set. If you choose to take this path Nay, instead of solving this conflict another way, you're fucking over the entire guild. Don't expect open arms down the road if you bail on us. I hope that doesn't happen and you two can solve your conflicts between each other.
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Post by Nayaru » Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:03 pm

rofl so im getting threats now? im definately done, and no you did this to yourself I was willing to wait for a tell all day or some message, but I guess swole is too much of a pussy for that. Peace.


And just to let you know before you posted palin I was on my way to SSC in resist gear. Later.
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Post by Palin » Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:10 pm

How do you figure thats a threat? The truth is based on what you were telling me last night you had no indication of returning, and you probably didn't realize how much you were screwing us over. I was trying to inform you of that fact.

You really need to stop being so self conscious. Your way of handling all this is completely juvenile, as judging by your last post. Remember who made the first threat in this post. All remember I've been trying to solve this between the two of you, but you're the one throwing out name calling and childish insults. Remember how you always talked about how people can throw shit but not take it when they're being called out? Thats exactly how you're acting right now. Stop being so self-conscious, stop perceiving every little thing as an insult or a personal attack against you, and look at the the big picture. You're being too hot headed for your own good, and its clouding your logic.

Btw: You're hurting everyone else by making this threats about not coming, not me or Swole or w/e. You're going against your own creed about progression by letting petty personal differences hold the guild back, and punishing the wrong people. You need to look at what you're doing as a whole, and realize you're making yourself look like a hypocrite.
Last edited by Palin on Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Nayaru » Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:20 pm

How is my first post a threat, you say im being self conscious? Your god damn right I am. When I take out 5 days out of my life and re arrange them not by 1 or 2 or 3 hours but 5 hours wake up at 5 am finish shifts at 2 pm then get home to raid, then later in the day I find out ppl, not commending me for my efforts for staying prot or coming prot or bringing consumables or the whole works, but on the contrary recieving threats, belittling or guilt trips, you think I would stay?

You are fucking kidding me if I should feel bad for playing a game that I pay for the way I want, cuz im pretty sure swole doesnt feel bad playing the way he doesnt, he even has time to go around and slander ppl who are trying to help the guild thats cool.

How am I hurting everyone else, you can pick up another warrior and get him resist gear in 1 week if you really want especially since im sending all primals that I used back. Your acting like if I go fury, or play the way I feel like in this game I should be crucified and everyone that i've helped along the way will spit on me when I come around. And that's bullshit.

Palin wrote:I'm being realistic. Whats gonna be a bigger upgrade, a Rogue whos gonna use the T3 Weapon every raid, or one of our best geared Tanks who also wants to go Fury. You'd be upgrading Thunder no? thats not a Fury Weapon, thats a PVP Weapon. Honestly I'd rather put any full time DPS class over a Warrior, because all our Warriors will be tanking at some point and time, and every one of them is upgrading Deep Thunder for Arena, not to PVE.

You stress progression no matter what, you really shouldn't be this opposed to tanking for the guild. We all know you want to go Fury, we've been focusing on having JC be our MT. If you don't want to MT don't, but we don't bring every Warrior we have atm for their DPS, we bring one for the Melee group if any, and the rest to tank. If you don't want to tank, don't, we'll phase you out. Even if you were a full time DPS Warrior, you've stated you want to raid Fury, you don't have a T2 1h afaik, and even still, half the time you got an invite it'd be to OT. So I'd still rather prioritize a full time DPS, it just makes more sense from a progression standpoint, which you've always pushed is the standpoint we should be taking no?

Don't know why this is such a big deal, we're gonna be trashing them in a month's time.
So basically, I went along with this line, but instead of being fine with it, you guys are trying to guilt trip me.
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Post by tombonator » Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:36 pm

heres what I think



and mind you i dont think very often




we all need to sit down and have some cookies and lemonade, let the bygones be bygones and lets just go to black temple and win 8)
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Post by Palin » Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:53 pm

You're turning this into a "Nay Fury or Prot" situation instead of "Nay throwing a fit, threatening to leave the guild, and an officer acting like a hothead" situation. You might be thinking this is about the former, but I could give a shit about that, I'm here talking about the latter.

Last night you told me you were done with the game in general, not that you wanted to stop tanking. You you haven't even mentioned staying with the game until the above post. My last post was in response to you leaving the game, which is what you indicated to me on AIM last night, not respecing. When I said bail on us, I meant as in leave the guild all together instead of solving your problems, not play as Fury. How can you say we're guilt tripping you for wanting to go Fury when the only thing you've said is "I'm out later." You haven't once mentioned going full time Fury since last night or this conflict.

We're not guilt tripping you to stay tanking, whether you want to tank or DPS is entirely another issue that is not at the core here, the core is the conflict between you and Swole, and you holding your tanking position above our heads in order to gain leverage. You made the threat to stop tanking for us earlier in this thread with the Vortexes, you used that threat again after Swole upset you, and then again today in response to my post.

The respecing and consumable part is all appreciated, but at the same time its what we expect out of our members, let alone our officers. Everyone's done their part here to that regard, Zepp has gone Shadow main when he wants to be Holy, all our Shamans have gone Resto either full time or on days we need them when they'd rather be Enchance/Ele, I've respec'd Holy for raids, and yes, despite what you want to believe, Swole has respeced Resto for us when asked too. You can't hold that over our heads, because its what we expect out of everyone, especially our officers.

No one is downplaying your RL commitments, but at the same time, no one asked you to make those commitments. You yourself chose to alter your RL around the game, and while yes it helped us out and we are thankful you're there, we did not make you do those things, so don't hold that over us like we owe you something for it. Just because you chose to prioritize this game over your sleep doesn't give you the right to completely blow up and make threats against us when things don't go your way, or act like a child when someone rubs you the wrong way instead of working out a personal problem personally.

The worst part of this all is how you handled yourself though. Instead of solving this problem normally, you blew up on every single post against you, saw it as a personal attack, and resorted to insults and using leverage to "get back at us." You knew exactly the reaction you would get by threatening to stop tanking, which is why you said what you did when you wanted the Vortexes, which is why you said it again when Swole pissed you off, and which is why you said it again when you perceived my comment regarding leaving the guild/game as a threat against respecing. You can't act like you didn't, even unconsciously, use that position to gain leverage.

Coming from an officer, no a former Guild Master? thats simply inappropriate. This is the model we're supposed to handle our problems with, blowing up and resorting to using our positions as leverage? Especially with a personal problem between two officers, if any conflict should be resolved maturely it should be one of this sort. And you expect us to come to you in apologies after the way you handled this? You're delusional. Any rational post that was given, you blew up on and responded with "I'm out peace late," in an obvious attempt to play on our need for your tanking position, and hope our desperation would make us change our stances. If anyone needs to apologize at this point its you for turning this into what it is with your hotheadedness.

You want to stay with the guild and DPS? Thats fine, cool, we'll work on finding another MT and working on his resist gear. It's gonna take some time though, so yea, for the sake of the guild and PVE progression (your motto), we're gonna need you for a bit. If you choose not to work with us to phase in a new MT, yea, you are hurting the guild as a whole, not us personally. This isn't a guilt trip, its the truth, its the guild's progression suffers when we can't do encounters because we don't have the resist tank we geared out, or the MT we geared out. Hopefully you'll work with us to phase yourself out of MT instead of leaving us high and dry, and realize its not gonna be instantaneous. Your call, whatever you choose is exactly that, your choice.

But this type of reaction from an Officer isn't acceptable, no matter what the circumstances. I expect a lot more out of the people who can read this forum. If is the way anyone's is going to solve their problems, in Nay and James' infamous phrases, the motto of hardcore progression... "you're cut." And yea, that one is a threat. Any problem, any time a person isn't pulling their weight, thats the solution thats been given. As an officer, all our weights are a lot bigger than that of a member, and more is expected out of it, especially how you handle conflict and drama. That solution applies here just as much as the rest of the guild.
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Post by Nayaru » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:33 am

What I still fail to realize is how you jumped to the conclusion that I THREATENED to stop tanking. I simply said, if I have to pass on items that i'd rather use to dps with, I should reconsider giving them up for MTing that I dont even enjoy. Take a second.. go back and read what I said again, and no I never once edited it.


You know to be honest, you guys act as if I tank because I want to tank, and passing over items that I really want because you guys have me in the position where I HAVE TO TANK, makes me reconsider tanking.


You jumped the gun and perceived it as how you wanted to. Never ONCE did I threaten to stop tanking over items. PERIOD. You act as if I deliberately was trying to in some way cause drama, and in turn you caused the drama by making a threat to a comment that you perceived was a threat.

But if i'm giving up a part of my warrior that I enjoy alot more then what im forced to do, it would make me reconsider my position considering its something I dont enjoy whatsoever, and I know for a fact JC does, and thats why I ask him to tank.

And you are wrong with me saying I had no indication of returning. I said I had no indication of tanking if it put me in the position where I cant play the way I want to, and was gonna send back primals + mats I used on my resist set so another warrior could get the set and replace my position as resist tank.

And if you honestly believe I haven't pulled my weight and your solution is to cut me.. So be it.

Also, from what I heard last night you were the one basically who sicked swole on me, and for that I really dont have any problems with swole, I know he has some hatred in him for me, its completely understandable and I know for a fact why it is, but thats between me and him, and for my statements I apologize because I was over the top, but to be honest your (swole) comments were far worse in that point in time.

You say I used leverage to get back at you, what do you call those posts? What escalated from there is what you would call 'Un-officer-like', and I take full responsibility for it. Last time I comments like 'Don't expect open arms down the road if you bail on us.' when the only people who would care honestly is prolly you and maybe a few of the new transfers cuz they wanna progress. But last time I checked the people who actually give a rats ass about what I do for the guild, ask me if I need gold, consumables, or anything for the guild if I really need. I rarely accept anything unless I NEED it to perform for the guild and for that I ALWAYS thank them. And im pretty sure even if I did 'bail' I would not be in the position where you think I would be.

However, in no way possible, do I still believe im the one wrong here. Why am I the only person in this guild who has to get punished to play how they want? I see shamans elemental, priests shadow, locks demo OR SL, pallies prot, rogues pvp spec, and others that I dont wanna bring up, how come when it comes back around to me im the one whose skewered and basically called out?

Also, yes before this nether vortex incident I didnt ever bring up going dps, because I honestly believed that after JC I would prolly get the next vortexes, but when I found out half assed rogues were gonna pick em up over me or that I was never gonna be in the line up for dps gear again, I realized I was not in the position that I wanted to be in, and that was to be able to have a SHOT at that gear.

Btw finished working a 16 hour on and off shift today to come back 3 times to threats. You know what kind of mood I was in yesterday Palin. I was cool and coherent, I dont know why you would go back and try to keep throwing gas on the fire when its obviously not working. We ended that conversation with something along the lines of me and swole should talk it over. Did I refuse palin? Was I online waiting for a response to mine for a few hours today that I was free? No, I didnt think so.
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Post by Palin » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:59 am

Last night you did let it be known you were going stop playing the game all together. I wish I had the logs but they're on my parents' PC, but I distinctly remember lines such as, "I enjoy playing with you guys but I know when a certain line has been crossed and to walk away." You did give off the impression you were leaving the game because you and Swole couldn't get along or because of the problems between you two.

And today, it wasn't my sentiment alone that prompted me to post what I did, a lot of people were feeling screwed because the MT we had geared out for Hydross had just gone off on the forums and said hes out. So no, you didn't threaten to stop tanking, you distinctly made it be known to me that you were taking off from the game in all together. And that's why I "threw gas on the fire." To me, you had made every indication you were planning to leave the game, not respec, not play Fury, not anything. And yea, that would have screwed us over quite a bit.

I still don't see how you feel you're being punished for being a tank, regarding Vortexes at least. Did you not say you agreed with me when I made the point that the Vortexes would do better going to a Rogue or Shaman member who has their T2 as opposed to a Warrior, simply because the Warrior is going to be tanking half the time and not using it? Not to mention upgrading a PVP weapon vs a PVE weapon, you've made it known you want to raid Fury, so I don't see why you'd expect equal prio on a Thunder which you'll be using in Arena, when half the time you'd be OTing even as a DPS Warrior, and the other half you'd be using Dragonstrike? Even if you went full time DPS, that was the reasoning I thought we should use, no one disagreed with me, and you said in retrospect you agreed, so I don't see how changing from MT to Fury/OT is gonna change that reasoning, or the loot priority if thats the way it was chosen(which no one has spoken up to in opposition).

As for "sicking Swole on you," thats not true. It was exactly as I explained it to you last night, if you talk to him he'd confirm the same thing. He had a lot of frustration with you , and I asked for him to back up my post when he agreed with me. He's not a dog to have attack whoever I want, he had well his own reasons for posting as he did.

And my comment regarding cutting isn't in regards to overall playing or the guild, it was in regards to being an officer. If an officer can't control his temper and think rationally he doesn't belong in a position of responsibility, thats as simple as it gets. Sorry if I didn't clarify what I was referring to.
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Post by Nayaru » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:19 am

You still act as if i'm the only reason we didnt do hydross. I know for a fact JC still doesnt have his resist gear ready, i've told him many times to get on top of it and to even get greens to finish the resist, he never did. So seriously stop trying to put me in the position that I caused, or am causing us to stop our progression. If anything, you should ask JC why he STILL didnt put any of his pieces together that hes getting his oh so sweet nether vortexes for. Even if i'm not gonna be tanking anymore I used more then half of the materials for MY set and the remaining pieces that I used from donations I have farmed back and sent back to the bank. As for JC, he didn't farm anything, maybe a few ores?

The 1-2 weeks when I was on hiatus I still came on to tell JC to get on top of his resist gear, cuz at that point in time I was still under the impression I could collect all this resist gear myself. Then I realized I just dont have the time, between farming for gold for respecs and consumables, and I bit the bullet and asked people for help. Then I find out later, Swole thinks im a hypocrite for asking for help for items that benefit the entire guild, when I didnt go on certain 5 mans or things he asked me to go to, that were in some way benefitial for him. I'm not calling him out at all, but if you know me, you know that I dont enjoy doing 5 mans.

And you did in fact tell me, when you were trying defend swoles actions yesterday, that you IN FACT, told him to make that post. He may have made it on his own, but I honestly dont think he would have made it in that specific fashion if he hadn't had you tell him to deal with me.

Yes, yesterday I wanted stormherald, what do you think JC's gonna be using them on too? He has a dragonmaw too, but I understand if i'm gonna be taking a rogues spot, I should be responsible and get the t2 weapon, which i'm able to get anytime I please, basically just a matter of time.

Also, who are these 'a lot of people' who feel that they are screwed, if by ppl other then officers knew at that point in time and gave input on this subject, whats the point of using officer forums really. Then when I ask that question whats the point of having officers, if things that you say cant be kept to the forums.
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Post by Palin » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:56 am

Yea, and you'd be getting the next Stormherald too at this present course in time, cuz there's no member Rogue/Shaman with a T2 Weapon atm. That wasn't the point, the point was what the priority should be in general, given all the requirements are met, including membership, and including a fully upgrade T2 weapon, and including a consistent raid spot. It was even said in that thread that there's no one who meets those requirements yet, we were trying to figure out a specific order of prioritzation and using the logic that was given, I suggested that Warriors shouldn't be equal to pure DPS due to tanking needs and the fact that most Warriors are upgrading for PVP atm, not PVE.

I'm looking at the guild in general, rather than just Hydross, though the resist gear was a part of it. Another large part was the general process of gearing up from Mag/Gruul as well. No matter what way you slice it, when an MT suddenly stops tanking for whatever reason, be it work, be it leaving the guild, be it whatever, its a setback. Finding a new Warrior would we could rely on, gearing him through all of Kara + the stuff from Gruul/Mag, and making him get his resist set, would be a lot of work, yes. Sure we could do it, but you can't realistically make the argument that it wouldn't be a setback for us, having to find having a qualified and geared reliable second MT for every encounter we need it for in SSC and TK.

JC did finish his set as of today yes. And yes, we all know you're a more reliable tank in every aspect than JC is, thats why you're the officer, thats why I asked you to be in charge of tanks and tanking rotations in general for raids. So yes, JC didn't have his set finished until today, but even if we wanted to we couldn't make attempts, because we were all under the impression you were leaving the game. And thats where the frustration came from. I was only on for a good 10 minutes today, and officer chat was in general downtrodden, and I know at least one person made a comment about being screw because our Ice tank was leaving. But no, it wasn't from member, none of the members got wind of this. It was from the officer chat and the general atmosphere today of that setback, that's the reason I posted what I did.

Again, Swole has been coming to me for a few weeks frustrated about a variety of things. I didn't push him to make the post the way he did, I simply told him to back up my position since he agreed with it. You can and should talk to him about it yourself, cuz this conflict is one I shouldn't be handling, it should be between you two, like I originally said.

The summary is though, last night was about you and Swole's conflict, and you quitting the guild/game. Somewhere between then and today it became about Specs and Vortexes. Two vastly different things. My post today was regarding what was said to me last night, you made it absolutely clear you were leaving the game or guild and was done with it because of the conflict between you and Swole. Today you claim that wasn't what you meant, and who knows, but I remember distinctly our conversation. My posts today were in response to you blowing up and how you went about dealing with your conflict and anger. You didn't rationally and calmly discuss how you wanted to make the transition from MT to DPS, you quite angrily made it known that you "were out."

Your respec, vortex priority, finding a new fulltime MT, all that can be discussed in another thread. I'm not concerned about that right here and now. What I'm concerned about was how this personal conflict was handled, how you did let it be perceived on this thread and to me you were quitting the game over this personal conflict; and how you did completely blow up on us, throwing any possibility of a open, rational, and calm debate out the window by throwing out insults and harsh words to fellow officers. Those things are what this thread is about to me, and the things I have concerns about.

Going to bed, will talk more in the morn.
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Post by Nayaru » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:22 am

What I'm concerned about was how this personal conflict was handled, how you did let it be perceived on this thread and to me you were quitting the game over this personal conflict; and how and you did completely blow up on us, throwing any possibility of a open, rational, and calm debate out the window by throwing out insults and harsh words to fellow officers. Those things are what this thread is about to me, and the things I have concerns about.

Ok I really dont know how many times I have to reiterate this before it gets through. You act as if I never even spoke to you yesterday on aim, you think I was as belligerent as you say I was? If you directly follow my so called 'threat' that started everything what was followed by that was basically 'harsh words' not by my part but guess who? How should I have responded? Oh your right swole, I am a dissapointment, I in no way have any credibility to the guild to help, and the stab in the back the claim that YOU were the person rooting for cleet to get gorehowl. IIRC and like I said on aim last night I was the only person who asked for cleet to get in each raid even when it wasnt on farm so he could get his 'toy'. But I guess being selfless in this guild is just another way of saying
Your comments disappoint me, but unfortunately, hardly come as a surprise. -Swole
I'm sorry im the only person shooting for a person to get a toy for a spec that isnt really needed in a pve progression guild. I guess having fun in a game is overrated huh.

You keep bringing this up when you should just let it die.
The summary is though, last night was about you and Swole's conflict, and you quitting the guild/game. Somewhere between then and today it became about Specs and Vortexes. Two vastly different things. My post today was regarding what was said to me last night, you made it absolutely clear you were leaving the game or guild and was done with it because of the conflict between you and Swole. Today you claim that wasn't what you meant, and who knows, but I remember distinctly our conversation. My posts today were in response to you blowing up and how you went about dealing with your conflict and anger. You didn't rationally and calmly discuss how you wanted to make the transition from MT to DPS, you quite angrily made it known that you "were out."
If you really want me to leave just say so, otherwise what point does it bother bringing it up constantly? And to be honest its ALWAYS been about the specs, cuz I remember distinctly going over with you how Swole gave up being resto for us.

Basically so he could be feral over the dispute when he couldnt get shoulders from chest. I wanna bring that topic back up because its strikingly similar to this. Swole was always asked to come resto (hey like me prot cool) then when leather dps shoulders dropped I gave them straight to a rogue (hey theyre 100% dps right? not 50% tank 50% dps) then I went straight into the hole for 2 hours and got into it with swole. Yea I admit I did, but what came out of that conversation was he decided he was not going to be our resto druid, one that we needed. But hey guess what happened? Did anyone jump on his ass over it?

What he was pissed about mainly, was not the fact that the rogue recieved it, he actually agreed with it (hey like me agreeing with full pve rogues or melee dps getting vortexes cool huh?) but what he was upset with was not being asked if he could pass to others. What he didn't get was appreciation for his going resto all he wanted was to get his gear, in that situation he didn't, but he wanted to at LEAST be in the running for it. What spawned out of this lack of appreciation was that swole prolly realized, that he didn't wanna be stuck as THE 'resto druid' but one that could do whatever he pleased during his time.

From what I see there is a definate grudge on me, or you guys are siding with each other just to pick on me cuz you dont like me (kinda like kids at a playground, very mature.) You act as if Swole was not the initiator (dont even know if thats a word) of this entire massacre of a thread. Really if he hadn't made any kind of response which was actually spurred by your willingness to see me being pushed down then we prolly wouldn't have a problem, and the entire string of responses that occured in first place is from a misunderstanding on how you guys perceived the context of what I wrote. It's simple as that, really.

I never once, ONCE, stated 'I WILL NOT' tank for the guild, what I said was things need to change if your willing to use me as a MT, and when the time comes for me to do what I want, not throw me in a corner and watch, rather give me a chance to recieve the things that I REALLY want, not things that im forced to get, forced to use dkp on, so the raid can progress. I have no problems with seeing raid progression, hell i've always been for raid progression, but honestly i'd be willing to pass tier 4-tier 6 to be able to get a chance to play how I want.

To be honest, I still dont have a problem with tanking, like I keep repeating and you already know the only reason I do go prot, is so we can have some consistency with our tanks, or someone you can rely on to be there.

But push back to Swoles problem before. I dont mind tanking, reiterating AGAIN so it doesnt go confused, what I do have a problem with is if I do go prot to help the guild, and thats the only reason to, then would I be treated as the 'tank' or the job that i'd rather be there as 'dps'? I understand its a cloudy subject, and I KNOW I shouldn't get sole priority over both, because I pretty much have priority over tanking shit, what I do ask is for a god damn SHOT at some of the pieces I actually desire.

And I hate for this entire fucking gay ass fucking drama filled fucking shit be revolving around gear. But I guess thats just how this game works out.
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Post by Naikon » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:21 pm

It still amazes me that after all this time Swole has yet to respond. Thats a different story though. :roll:

I knew this shit was going to happen in the first place. This is exactly why I wanted to give tanking gear to our MT/OT for free and let them use their DKP on what they want. Its unfair to our tanks to charge them DKP when we have a prot pally bidding on RET gear instead of prot OR holy.
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Post by Palin » Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:28 pm

Calling you out for blowing up on other officers, constantly reiterating that "you're out" as your solution to conflict, and reacting to you telling me on AIM that you were leaving the game is not picking on you. If you feel it is you seriously need to step back and relook at all those comments you've made over these few years about having calling people out and being called out.

There was no misconception in perception on my part. You've changed your stance 3 times in the course of two days. First you explicitly let it be known to me you were leaving. Then later that changed to you just saying you were going Fury. Now its just about gear. Go back and reread what you wrote to me on AIM, then what you wrote yesterday, then when you wrote last night, your message and stance went from leaving, to not tanking, to wanting to be included in gear.

I don't see why you don't feel you can't gear as DPS. We already said we're gonna phase you out of MT, and you're free to spend your DKP on plate DPS gear as you want. Tanking gear is dirt cheap, and no one ever made you take it or take it over JC. I don't see your situation much different than any OTs' would be. We'd encourage them to take the tanking gear after the MTs have it, but its their DKP to spend, we can't force it upon them. The whole point of a DKP system is you can use it where you want, so I don't see what you want us to change when you have everyone option you want in front of you. The only situation we have going on is with Warriors and general and Vortexes, which again, should be discussed in the other thread. If you have a logical reason as to why Warriors who tank half the time or are going for Thunder should be included with Rogues who are going to use it full time in a raid, besides "I want it," post it in that thread so we can have a logical discussion. Other than that though, you have and always have had under a DKP system every opportunity to gear yourself as you wish.

And yea, I was considering removing you from Officer, because this is the second time you've blown up upon being called out in an officer conflict, and thats not how problems should be handled. And despite saying you never made a threat to stop tanking, you did on multiple times say "I'm out Peace" and did allude to the fact you were leaving the guild/game when I talked to you on AIM, so you can't say you didn't handle this explosively and unprofessionally, which again, is not the way officer conflicts should be handled. We'll see if it happens again down the road I guess.

I'm willing to let this drop, cuz this conflict already ruined my weekend at home, again, and its still bothering me when I have other things to be worrying about, so yes, I too would like to move on. Lets keep the gear discussions logical and rational, post Vortex discussion on the Vortex page, etc. But at the same time, if you both, Swole and Nay, want to continue being officers, you need to work out your conflict. I don't care who has to talk to who, but it needs to be done, I won't have animosity when making decisions in officer chat. If you can't settle it, I'll have to remove you both from this position, simple as that.
I knew this shit was going to happen in the first place. This is exactly why I wanted to give tanking gear to our MT/OT for free and let them use their DKP on what they want. Its unfair to our tanks to charge them DKP when we have a prot pally bidding on RET gear instead of prot OR holy.
Really James, cuz I would have never known that, you didnt post once in the DKP thread regarding those sentiments. I can't believe you posted this after all the hassling I've given you to post on these forums and leave feedback with your opinion. You can't go back and say "I told you so" when you never said anything.
Last edited by Palin on Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Naikon » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:32 pm

I've suggested it on vent and all I got was "That isn't fair for the rest of the guild, James." (something along those lines) from almost all of the people that were in the channel, so I didn't bother posting it in the DKP thread. If I don't want to post in any policy discussion forums thats my own decision. I'm not very vocal when it comes to discussing any policies hence the reason why I haven't been posting.

J.C or Nay are in the position right now where we NEED them to tank. Does Nay want to? No, but has he ever complained about tanking for us in our progression raids? Nope. I can't speak for JC, but from reading all this shit I know Nay doesn't enjoy tanking, but he tanks for us anyway. Which we should be grateful for.

Even if we give tanking gear to our tanks for first prio at minimum bid they are going to want other pieces for their off-spec, but they also wont have the points to compete with other people. If we're going to let book use his points strictly on RET gear instead of the gear he needs for PVE, then we might as well let our warriors be able to roll on DPS gear. I thought this would have come to everyone's attention when he won the belt from mag AND the hammer from high king, but I guess not. Of course when I mentioned this in guild chat I got the response along the lines of, "Well its his points he can do what he wants with it."

I personally don't think Nay's first post was a threat unlike most of you. All he mentioned was he reconsidered tanking. Doesn't sound like a threat to me, but I guess it does to some people. I've told Palin this already, but the very second you talk to someone like they are 5 years old you better expect a response in the same tone of voice. Seriously you have to be kidding me, "...you wanna take your ball and go home." How fucking old are we? I would expect this in an argument in guild chat but not in the office forum. I'm almost 100% positive that if Swole's post was in a different tone this thread would be non-existent and the issue would not have escalated to this level.
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Post by Palin » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:37 pm

Wait, when did we not let our tanks roll on DPS gear? JC got the helm off Void Reaver and gloves off Gruul, Nay got the bracers off Malgaur. And we lowered the points on all plate to match. We also changed the values, whats the difference of a tanking piece being 10 points and a plate DPS piece being 20 as opposed to the DPS Rogue piece being 30? We've lowered the prices on all the MT DPS AND Tank pieces to exactly remedy that problem, so tanks have the DKP to bid on cheap DPS pieces even while gearing for tanking. Was that not noticed?
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Post by Naikon » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:44 pm

All that was before our DKP system went into play.
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